Dear Our Portugal,
Despite the gloom and doom and the effects of the “Credit Crunch” I am going to buy a cheap old house in Portugal to refurbish as an investment and holiday home. As I think the UK property market and state of the UK pound will be negative for a long time. My research turned up your very informative site(!).
I was frankly amazed at the before and after pictures of the stone house in the part 1 Portuguese Property Renovation Guide blog posting (ed: linked). Are they really the same house?
What did the transformation cost?
Who was the Architect?
Who was the builder, were they a British company?
How long did the project take?
And what did it cost? Oh yes, and what’s the sale value now!
First of all, thank you for your positive comments they are much appreciated!
As the finished property is owned by a client and friend I have to be circumspect when answering your questions. If you are going to be in this area soon I would be pleased to co-ordinate a meeting with the owner if he is agrees.
You asked – Are they really the same house? Answer, Yes they are! The old ruin had terrible access and magnificent views, so we improved one and tried to capture the other as best we could.
What did the transformation cost? Answer, Best ask the owner directly.
Who was the Architect? Answer, Villarq, a company based in Penela who we have used with great results.
Who was the builder, were they a British company? Answer, The builders are a Portuguese company from Miranda do Corvo. Again, after doing several projects, we know how high-quality their projects finish.
How long did the project take? Answer, The main house build took nine months plus the large swimming pool and garden landscaping.
Oh yes, and what’s the sale value now! Answer, A recent independent valuation gave a value equivalent to a 60% increase in a year. The house is not for sale!
Tags: investment property in central portugal, refurbishing portuguese houses, renovation property in cnetral portugal
January 28, 2009 at 2:35 pm
Do you know anyone who can advise me on how to take down a large internal stone built wall to make a room larger.
I would also like to hire some heavy building equipment. Is there a store like HHS in this part of Portugal?
Thanks Bob
January 28, 2009 at 3:04 pm
Bob,
We strongly recommend that you should only take advice on taking the wall down from a professional. We can recommend two suitable people if you send an email to info@coimbrapropertyshop.com. The work of removing the wall can be done by an average handyman, although some of the tie stones in the ground floor walls can be huge, weighing ¼ of a ton or more. They will probably require breaking up just to get them out of the building.
Are you sure that you can manage the physical side of the work?
Because the stones are jointed in clay/lime and they are inside a building they will be dry so there will be a lot of dust. Be prepared in sealing off the living area of the house and wear a dust mask while working.
The main three concerns in removing internal walls are the weight it is holding above.
1, Are there any chimneys, roof joist, purlins, lintels or other walls being connected too or sitting on top of the wall.
2, Are you sure that the adjoining walls to the one that you are taking out are not relying on that wall. I.e., are they leaning against it for support.
3, The tie stones will stick out into the room once the wall is taken down. Do you know how to cut them without risking damaging the existing wall.
I will address tool hire in a separate reply.
January 29, 2009 at 3:15 pm
Graham
I was interested to read what you said about the size of the stones in an old house wall.
My wife and I started to refurbish our house near Lousa and found that most of the stones from our wall came away easily. Some were far bigger than expected.
The tie stones that I think you reffered to. So much so that even with the help of my rugby playing son over on a working holiday assisting me in levering them out of the doorway with shovels we couldn’t get them into our trailer.
The “hard labour” then began and after buying two lump hammers at Mestra Maco we took days breaking them up to a handable size.
Good luck with your refurb!
Norman
January 31, 2009 at 5:20 pm
What are the regulations regarding rennovation – I assume the above level of rennovation requires planning permission but what if ít is a case of upgrading exisitng construction like renewing the old wooden style roofing materials with modern vigas and concrete and installing double glazing – does this need council approval or can one just do it?
February 2, 2009 at 10:46 am
Thanks for your question Iain.
You asked us, what are the regulations regarding renovations.
Well, the laws have changed recently and as usual here in central Portugal the local authorities have made some interpretations of their own. So it’s always worth checking.
If you are upgrading an existing construction – for instance a house roof by taking away the tiles, tile battens, timber rafters and purlins (effectively
removing the entire roof) you need a roof work’s license from your local Camara.
It is also important to bear in mind that if you are replacing the roof with concrete “T” beams or vigas you may inadvertently change the height of the roof line at the ridge. This could cause real protracted problems and take ages to resolve unless you already have had planning permission for the changes. (I know of numerous examples of this.) Good relations with the local Fiscal can make life a lot easier in these types of renovations.
Also bear in mind that if you are going to use scaffolding in the public road outside the house or store materials like sand and so on in the street. You will need licenses to do this.
Windows, new for old: Just because a window is in a house doesn’t mean that it is legally able to be there. That is why you see “arrow slit” style windows in some houses. There are too close to a boundary to be normal windows. As a rule of thumb, if an existing window is more than 3 meters from the boundary of the land it sits on it is ok. Closer than that and you probably can’t have a window unless you have planning permission. You may also have to have written permission from the adjoining property owner.
Apart from the boundary proximity issue you should be able to replace the windows. Making them larger than they were is another area that needs planning
permission.
Our recommendation is to choose a window design in aluminum with an integral thermal break in the frame.
While the old windows are out take the opportunity to treat of replace the old wooden lintels.
February 8, 2009 at 3:24 pm
An old stone house near one that I am interested in buying has just fallen down. Aparently because of the heavy rain !.
Is this possible ?
Whats to stop the house that I am interested in buying from going the same way?
Alan
February 26, 2009 at 7:27 pm
Alan. It is indeed very possible (highly likely in certain circumstances) for an old stone house here in Portugal to fall down or become unsafe just because of rain.
This is how it can start and why you often see refurbished roofs on old empty property.
The process,
A roof tile breaks or slips. Rain lands on the dry joist and runs downhill to the outside wall where it wets the very dry clay/lime cement which in an old house will be like dust.
The moisture seeps into the very dry and untreated eucalyptus wood joist and very rapidly rots it just enough for it to loose its footing on the outside wall. The joist drops a little causing a slight depression in the roof tiles.
Further rain finds the depression and now even more water is hitting the outside wall causing the ends of other joists to rot and drop.
* I am in the process of replacing a section of roof with just such a problem.
The funneled rain which is rotting the joist ends causes more tiles to move (they are not nailed on just held by gravity) increasing the problem of the wet house wall. The walls at roof level are normally very dry which soaks up the rain softening the mortar and washing it away.
As the mortar looses its strength a strong wind, a further dropping of the roof or a badly constructed wall can come crashing down in less than a year of the problem starting.
My top tip: Keep woodworm and water away from your roof joists and rafters.